Cooperative Zendo

Not the kind with cardstock and pawns. Mostly play by post Mafia so far.

Re: Cooperative Zendo

Postby DanielH » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:24 pm

Is everybody stuck and I should give more hints?

Is everybody annoyed that I’m giving too many hints and I should tone it down?

Has everybody just gone on vacation?
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Re: Cooperative Zendo

Postby Unbitwise » Mon Oct 24, 2016 8:43 pm

raises hand at “gone on vacation” Also I got distracted. And sick.

I now observe, where I did not before, that we have 22 but not 222, so “substrings of yes are yes” is false. I have no other hypotheses to work from at the moment.
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Re: Cooperative Zendo

Postby Unbitwise » Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:23 pm

88
107
ef5
0498521
1498521
2498521
3498521
4498521
5498521
6498521
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Re: Cooperative Zendo

Postby DanielH » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:04 pm

Unbitwise wrote:I now observe, where I did not before, that we have 22 but not 222, so “substrings of yes are yes” is false. I have no other hypotheses to work from at the moment.


Without commenting on the conclusion, this implication is incorrect. This is similar to how you don’t need to turn over the red card in te Wason selection task.

Yes: 2498521
No: 0498521, 107, 1498521, 3498521, 4498521, 5498521, 6498521, 88, ef5


Information
Initial post: http://alicorn.elcenia.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=28366#p28366
SHA-1: 074b5f19b6226a5ef8e524985218f102e41fc5f5

Yes:
(the empty string)
0
02
07
1
10
102
2
22
2498521
4
498521
5
5ef8
6
7
8
8521
9
98521
a
b
c
e
e4
f
f1
f5
f8
fc

No:
00
000
001
00100
002
003
007
01
010
022
03
033
04
0498521
05
06
077
08
09
0a
0b
0c
0d
0e
0f
100
1000
10000
107
11
111
1498521
198521
20
222
298521
3
30
33
333
3498521
398521
40
44
4498521
48
4c
50
5498521
55
598521
60
61
63
64
6498521
65
66
698521
6e
70
72
77
770
777
78
798521
80
87521
87532
88
898521
8badf00d
90
900dd09
97531
9851d
9851e
9851f
98520
98522
98523
98524
98532
998521
a0
a9510
aa
abba
b0
b4
bb
c0
c007d00d
c4
cafebabe
cc
d
d0
d15ea5e
d1efa57
d4
dd
deadbeef
decade
decaf
e0
ee
ef5
f0
f1d0
f2
f3
f4
f6
f7
f9
fa
faceb00c
fb
fd
fe
fe821
feb87
ff
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Re: Cooperative Zendo

Postby Unbitwise » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:39 pm

Sorry, that was indeed entirely mixed up reasoning.

Guess: Any substring of any one of 102, 2498521, 5ef8, 07, 6, 22, a, b, e4, f1, f5, fc

(If the structural hypothesis behind this guess is correct, then this guess will be a subset.)

22498521
24985210
24985211
24985212
24985213
24985214
24985215
24985216
24985217
24985218
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Re: Cooperative Zendo

Postby DanielH » Tue Oct 25, 2016 8:49 pm

Guess: Any substring of any one of 102, 2498521, 5ef8, 07, 6, 22, a, b, e4, f1, f5, fc

(If the structural hypothesis behind this guess is correct, then this guess will be a subset.)


I never promised to confirm subsets, but in this case I will. This is one; there are no no counterexamples. You’ve already guessed a yes counterexample, though:

Yes: 24985218
No: 22498521, 24985210, 24985211, 24985212, 24985213, 24985214, 24985215, 24985216, 24985217

Information
Initial post: http://alicorn.elcenia.com/board/viewtopic.php?p=28366#p28366
SHA-1: 074b5f19b6226a5ef8e524985218f102e41fc5f5

Yes:
(the empty string)
0
02
07
1
10
102
2
22
2498521
24985218
4
498521
5
5ef8
6
7
8
8521
9
98521
a
b
c
e
e4
f
f1
f5
f8
fc

No:
00
000
001
00100
002
003
007
01
010
022
03
033
04
0498521
05
06
077
08
09
0a
0b
0c
0d
0e
0f
100
1000
10000
107
11
111
1498521
198521
20
222
22498521
24985210
24985211
24985212
24985213
24985214
24985215
24985216
24985217
298521
3
30
33
333
3498521
398521
40
44
4498521
48
4c
50
5498521
55
598521
60
61
63
64
6498521
65
66
698521
6e
70
72
77
770
777
78
798521
80
87521
87532
88
898521
8badf00d
90
900dd09
97531
9851d
9851e
9851f
98520
98522
98523
98524
98532
998521
a0
a9510
aa
abba
b0
b4
bb
c0
c007d00d
c4
cafebabe
cc
d
d0
d15ea5e
d1efa57
d4
dd
deadbeef
decade
decaf
e0
ee
ef5
f0
f1d0
f2
f3
f4
f6
f7
f9
fa
faceb00c
fb
fd
fe
fe821
feb87
ff
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Re: Cooperative Zendo

Postby Unbitwise » Tue Oct 25, 2016 9:04 pm

Okay, so that is (imperfect) evidence that the rule accepts substrings and not only suffixes.

It's also interesting that the-thing-of-which-24985218-is-a-substring hasn't proven to have any characters in the a-f range (yet), but I suspect that's just a coincidence.
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Re: Cooperative Zendo

Postby Unbitwise » Wed Oct 26, 2016 8:53 am

ef1
0f1
1f1
2f1
3f1
4f1
5f1
6f1
7f1
8f1
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Re: Cooperative Zendo

Postby DanielH » Wed Oct 26, 2016 1:16 pm

Yes: 5f1 and 8f1
No: the others

Full post later
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Re: Cooperative Zendo

Postby Unbitwise » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:09 pm

5f5
8f5
5fc
8fc
8e
8ef
8ef8
107
122
220
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