Page 4 of 9

Re: Elcenia Mafia Post Mortem

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:02 pm
by Tamien
it seems reasonable to me to have a Day 1 that is everyone chatting, wild mass guessing, etc, but which mechanically there is no vote and no thus no lynch, and then the mafia kills in the night and then the next day we start lynching. that way, no one dies before getting a chance to talk, nor do we have people who are killed on the first day because of the RNG. this would benefit the mafia slightly, since they'd have a day's worth of chatter to base their kill selection off of, but i think that could be relatively easily balanced by nerfing the mafia in some other way.

ETA wow so much nina-ing, i have hit submit four times and each time there's been at least new post.

I'd like to play another game, but I'd prefer to wait until after the Arkham game. (If it starts before that ends, I'll play anyway, I just might not play as well? I'm not sure to what degree being in two games would actually cause conflicts of time or attention, but it seems possible that they might interfere.) I'd also rather wait longer and get more players than start sooner and have most of the potential player base too burnt out to join. But I am definitely up for the next mafia game when you do run it.

Re: Elcenia Mafia Post Mortem

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:04 pm
by pistachi0n
I precommit that in all future mafia games, my other precommitments are only solid until I start to think it'll go against my win condition. I precommit that I will post a detailed explanation for breaking other precommitments and that if I am town, they will be 100% accurate. I precommit that I this is the only precommitment I can be relied upon to follow and that, in a game of mafia, just assume I don't know the meaning of the word "precommitment."

Re: Elcenia Mafia Post Mortem

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:05 pm
by DanielH
I would like to play again whenever other people would.

Lambda, I’m not thinking of it that way. If, for example, Aestrix made this precommitment, my expectations of her behavior would be completely unchanged. I am telling you what to expect from my behavior, not declaring rules for what anybody else has to do.

It’s not even a strong expectation. If I have reason to believe somebody is more against my wincon than random chance would indicate, such as if I’m mafia and the mafia leader says they’re pretty sure they found the traitor, then I could still vote for them.

Shoal, if I made that precommitment, I would then say “I promise I am town” on Day 1 whether or not it was true. It becomes a magic passphrase instead of a real promise. I would not make a precommitment which fixed that problem because it would lower the fun of the game for everybody (including me).

Re: Elcenia Mafia Post Mortem

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:06 pm
by anthusiasm
Agreed with Shoal on Arkham, it is confusing.

I would really, really like to play Short Stories Mafia but if we start a new game in the next couple weeks I will almost definitely not be able to. I'm burned out on Mafia and I have finals coming up.

Re: Elcenia Mafia Post Mortem

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:08 pm
by pistachi0n
Hey DanielH, sorry about pushing to get you nightkilled on Day 1. My mafia self thinks it was the right decision, but it would have been really interesting to have your power in play.

Re: Elcenia Mafia Post Mortem

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:11 pm
by Shoal
my future self is smarter than me, has more experience playing mafia, has learned more things about the people I'm playing with, is in some situation that I can't even imagine because I don't know what its rolepm will look like or what others will have said at the applicable moment, is older than I am. I trust my future self to be able to make up its own mind about whatever situation it comes across.

Re: Elcenia Mafia Post Mortem

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:17 pm
by Tamien
Re: people being confused about Arkham: I have played the game many times in real life (not to the point where it's as worn-smooth as Betrayal at House on the Hill for me, but I have a lot of it pretty well internalized) and I've nevertheless found this textual version unexpectedly difficult to follow. It's normally a complicated game, but having to keep track of everything in text only makes it seem truly arcane. I don't think I would have attempted to play on the forum if I didn't have the familiarity I have in real life; I am very impressed by people who are learning to play it as they go along.

Re: DanielH dying early: yeah, one thing that I noticed about this game was that there was a lot of *potential* for fun power pinball, but a lot of stuff didn't really get the opportunity to shine.

Re: Elcenia Mafia Post Mortem

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:21 pm
by Alicorn
I'm all for people doing re-runs of these games (although Kaylo in particular can't be used twice) if they want to.

Re: Elcenia Mafia Post Mortem

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:30 pm
by BlueSkySprite
For me, starting a new game immediately would be best, because I just got out of school today, and my internship doesn't start until a little bit less than three weeks from now, so I'm going to have a lot more free time now than almost any other time.

I was intimidated by the size of the rules for Arkham, so I'm not planning to play, although I'm planning to eventually read through all the gameplay.

I am also planning to sometime this summer do a rerun of Effulgence mafia (setting changed to Night Vale, with minor flavor-related changes, and possibly some others if there are a lot more or less people than the previous game). I'm planning to invite some of my friends from school, but people from here are welcome too, unless most people agree it wouldn't be fun if they already knew the secrets.

Re: Elcenia Mafia Post Mortem

PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:36 pm
by jalapeno_dude
Shoal wrote:no, town power roles would still be able to investigate and stuff. they'd have to blend in with the wild accusations though. or try to.

Oh, I see. Yeah, that could work.

Shoal wrote:But why are you precommitting to follow a suboptimal strategy?

edit: I meant to say this too: when I was objecting to precommitments in the game, that wasn't just because i was scum, it was because I sincerely believed (and continue to believe) that it is playing against your win condition if you are town.

This is the basic reason why I think this needs to be fixed with rules rather than with precommitments. Since there's not a game going on right now, we should talk about what we can do to make the game more fun for everyone. When there is a game going on, I am going to be extremely tempted to default to "try to win" rather than "try to make sure everyone has a good time." I have DMing instincts, as anyone who reads the threads where we tried to find out what to do with Aestrix in Night 1 can check for yourselves, so I hope I could fight against this, but I still don't trust myself to. I do think the people on this forum have a better chance of imposing these sorts of voluntary restrictions (similarly, I think people on this forum would be good at honoring the IC/OOC distinction in a D&D campaign), but it seems best to avoid the problem entirely.

(In other words, this is a problem that should be fixed via game design instead of trying to convince people not to munchkin/powergame.)

Alicorn wrote:Incidentally, I'm curious how many people want to play another game and when they'd like to do it. (I've been thinking people need a breather, I know there's been some burnout and also there's now the Arkham game sucking up attention.) We have most of a Short Stories spread of characters figured out in general, but if there would be like eight people playing if I started it next week, I'd sooner wait.

I am happy to start whenever. (As I told you via PM, I'm also happy to help run a game if you or Nemo want to play.) I wouldn't have a problem with a small game, though I see how it makes sense for you to save the new roles you've come up with for bigger games.

I have idly been toying with the idea of running a D&D-ish campaign on this forum, and if I am not participating in a Mafia game this is probably more likely to happen sooner.